The great Indymedia climate debate

The mainstream press is prosecuting a farce of a carbon tax “debate”. In the one corner opposing the tax you have climate denialists, middle class welfare recipients complaining about their lack of “compensation” and billionaires such as Twiggy Forest and Gerry Harvery masquerading as “ordinary” Australians. In the other corner are the ALP and the Green’s arguing that the carbon tax is a bold step towards solving climate change and anyone who opposes them is a selfish climate denialist.

However there is another kind of debate possible, a debate between informed environmentalists of good faith committed to finding the right solution to tackling climate change. Two of Indymedia’s regular contributors have written articles for and against the carbon tax. Takver has written Carbon pricing policy: a small start to tackling climate change whilst Flowerpower has written The carbon tax con: why the ALP/Green carbon tax is a climate disaster

Indymedia exists to promote a real debate from a progressive or left wing perspective. So read the articles and contribute to the debate by adding a comment. Even better submit your own article on the issue, but please keep your responses considered and respectful, based upon the climate science.



There is some debate and analysis on the issue at The Conversation- "The Conversation is an independent source of information, analysis and commentary from the university and research sector"

Independent source fuck off!

Flower power I would have thought the two sides to be not as you describe it but in one corner you have people who think the climate is changing (like it has done for millions of years) but do not think it is man made and people who work for a living and already pay too much tax.In the other corner you have the unemployed left wing rent a crowd feral types,Uni students that would not know what hard work was if it hit them on the head,the gay community,greedy bankers,the greens, Green peace mouth piece the IPCC( that have been caught bull shitting red handed) the ALP that tow the Zionist line(note the term climate deniers straight out of the zionist propaganda rule book)And last but not least paid off scientists that need the Government grants and will doctor scientific research to suit their own agendas Oh and takver that thinks he/she is the authority on the subject.
All this crap was thought up by the Bilderberg group and the CFR (council on foreign relations) the same people that start wars run the banks and in general rule the world, wake up and start thinking for yourselves before it is too late.

So if the international bankers are said to be in another corner of the climate debate than the international kleptocrats, isn´t that quite some creative discord for an acknowledged conspiracy? When the political distance between these two as you perceive it is greater than that between pro-climate volunteer activists and pro-climate career politicians, does that mean next week the banks will be forward lobbying for a mining tax which can entirely replace income tax (and all the expendable self-hating petty envy feuds coming with it)? To put it mildly, if you attempt to associate the bad feelings related to banks with your respective opponents, be careful what you wish for. As a result, you might find all the bad feelings related to the oil mafia associated with yourself.

Can you tell me does the world bank make money from the climate change lie?
I dont think the banks will lobby for a mining tax because they already have their finger in the mining pie and are making a lot of money out of it.

Since it issues no currency, the World Bank is not a central bank which might decide that this is the only way to save its currency. All the central banks involved would have to come to that decision simultaneously amid existing trade wars, in agreement of their various corrupt leaders which seems rather unlikely. The International Monetary Fund does however for some time already. Lies about climate change are economically most attractive for these who want to continue to mine/drill untaxed.

The World Bank is currently the largest public broker of carbon purchases, with over 1,000 million dollars in its portfolio of carbon credits. Internal documents on the origins of the Bank's Prototype Carbon Fund (PCF) show that it was created as a way of making a profit. The Bank makes up to 10 per cent commission, mainly on the carbon credits it purchases for the fund it is managing.The World Bank estimates the value of global carbon markets jumped from $110 million in 2002 to $126 billion in 2008, while a recent report by New Carbon Finance and Ecosystems Marketplace shows 123 million tons of carbon credits worth $705 million were traded here in 2008.
Carbon trading system that has already operated for six years (since 2005) without any reduction in carbon dioxide levels. On the other hand, lots of money had changed hands.
It is clear that energy companies were the originators of carbon trading. Enron persuaded Vice President Gore to sign the Kyoto Protocol and insert emissions trading into article 17. The biggest pressure group at Copenhagen was The International Emissions Trading Association whose members include :-BP, Conoco Philips, Shell, E.ON AG (coal power stations owner, EDF (one of the largest participants in the global coal market), Gazprom (Russian oil and gas) and of course, the banks. Every corporation on earth supports global warming, Many of the biggest political promoters of global warming are connected to the oil and gas industry. Margaret Thatcher ( her husband was a director of Burmah Oil), Kenneth Lay (Enron), Lord Browne (BP), Al Gore (100% owned and operated by Occidental Oil - his father was a director) , Rajendra K Pachauri (director of Indian Oil Corp.even during his time as head of the IPCC ).
The World Bank now operates a Carbon Finance Unit that conducts research on how to develop and trade carbon credits. The bank works with Italy, the Netherlands, Denmark and Spain to set up carbon-credit funds in each country to purchase emission credits from firms for use in developing countries. In addition, it runs the Carbon Fund for Europe helping countries meet their Kyoto Protocol requirements. These funds are traded on the ECX (half of which is owned by CCX, itself a creature of Al Gore’s firm, Generation Investment Management). Can you connect the dots?
And lets not forget the main goal, and that is we have a global problem (what a con)and it can only be fixed by a world Government this is the bottom line it is all a push for a one world government.Don't let the greedy criminals away with it, use your brains and stand up and fight against the globalists if they get their way and form a one world Government (a new world order)we will all be their slaves.Is that the future you want for your children?

Very good debate, I think it's an opportunity to gain time and to advance the search for alternative energies that accompany those which are imposed, they complement but reduce the actual or find an impersonation of these to replace them with cleaner pruduciran insurance that a change in the economy. Be logical and astute resposablesy to make important decisions and the tax has something to do with that process.